The Jerk Debate
Do women only go for men who treat them badly?
(Do men only go for women who do the same?)

Responses sent to Mimi Tanner:
Page 1    Page 2   Page 3

Anonymous girl says Aaron is right - she is attracted to jerks: 

Cynthia says not all men want to be jerks:

Michelle says: Wait till the "Real Person" shows up:


Want to call in a response to this topic?  Here is the number.  Your privacy is assured - I will not see your phone number. There is no charge to call other than any long-distance charges from your phone company.

Phone 214-615-6044  Extension 3969

What are we talking about?  Here's what sparked the responses.

Hey Mimi,

I have a question... how do you rekindle a relationship where you don't feel the heat anymore?

I've only been going out with this guy for a month, but already I find myself making excuses not to hang out with him... He is the sweetest person ever, and I am still attracted to him, and I still enjoy spending time with him...but I have moments when I feel like "Ick, I do NOT want to be dating this guy!"

I'd appreciate any advice!

Thanks, A.

 
"As one of your male subscribers, this one struck a nerve.

  "Women ALWAYS do this.  Then they go and run with abusive jerks who treat them like $&*!, end up bitter and disillusioned, and come to really intelligent conclusions like 'all men are pigs'.  ARRGH!

  "Just so long as she doesn't blame men, individually or collectvely, for when the inevitable happens, let her do whatever she wants.  As for me, I'll go back to learning how to be a jerk.  It seems to work much better." 

 -- Aaron (not his real name)

 

I wrote back to Aaron:

But women of course feel the same way - the men go for the women who mistreat them too! : )

But let's face it - Aaron has a very important point.  Here's is what people wrote about his email:

Responses sent in by email:

I too pick all the jerks, thing is, they're not jerks until further along in the relationship when they think they "have me."

There are a log of very nice girls looking for a nice guy... who will stay that way once they are "committed." 

 
Lisa

To "Aaron" we don't want jerks, and this may sound insensitive but we want real men, not needy ones. Sometimes when you come across as being too nice, it's a bit of a turn off. Let us women chase you a little, we like that!!  Well I can't speak for every woman, but the single ones I know like the chase... -- Jeni.
  

There are plenty of women who want and value a good man. Me among them. I think it is important to differentiate whether you are looking just for excitement – which might include a lot of drama and tears – or a lasting relationship with someone worthy of your love. -- Michelle 

 

I myself , do not think that ALL males are jerks.  I  do think that they are spineless though.  Most of the time they don't tell you that they want to end things with you...they just cut off contact..,and you are left  to wonder..what the heck happened here.  But when we look back, we do realize that there were signs that your man was anot really a man, he was an immature, delf-absorbed brat..........that you bent over backwards for!

 Yes, I am a tad bit bitter! -- D.
 

 

I agree with what you and Aaron are saying but I would like to also add that I don't think women set out to date men who treat them badly.  I know for myself, I have an uncanny way of falling for men who have treated me like a Queen for the first few months and before I know it they have turned out to be 'wolves in sheep's clothing'.     I heard something in your column that I have come to recite daily, 'we teach people how to treat us' and I find it amazingly true.  -- Trish
 

I think it all has to do with the 'rejection factor'. It is human nature to strive to be accepted and validated.. to feel significant. The 'rejection factor' was something an old beau talked about in passing, talking about his 1st wife, saying that she was wanting to leave a few years before he left, after he had begged her to stay. The tables turned when he left to live with his 2nd wife.. who dumped him later on.

It also has to do with giving too much power and control of yourself to someone else. Ultimately, we all strive for balance. All relationships have 'dances' that occur.. Change the dance, and you change the outcome. Harriet Lerner has written a fair few books on this subject.. -- Tina

 


I've been with a guy for 6 months now and whenever I am talking to him... like if we go to the mall or anywhere out in public. he always checks other girls out. and doesn't seem to pay attention to me. does this mean he wants those other girls? or is it just a habit for men? -- Michelle
 

This is such an interesting subject. I would call myself a sensible woman who can tell if a guy is bad news or not. Alot of what you say in your classes about choosing the right man is so true and luckily, I was always brought up to be careful and spot the troublesome ones. However, this great theory is put to the test when you meet someone who you have amazing chemistry with, who happens to be one of these unavailble, rather unhelpful men (notice I do not use the term jerk, because I believe that even 'jerks' have reasons for being that way).

I always used to think women who went for these guys must be so blind not to see what they were getting into, until it happened to me. Now because of what I knew, I was able to resist getting involved as my head over-ruled my heart. BUT it was very, very difficult. And these 'jerks' are often the best at creating chemistry and attraction with women and that is what does it. But men get caught in the attraction trap too as you said Mimi. Ah, life is funny sometimes....
 
: ) L.

Dear Mimi,

In response to the below and in rebuttal to "Aaron's" comments about women being attracted to jerks, I have this to offer:

I was in a similar situation as "A" below.  I was with a guy who was sweet, handsome, called when he said he would and we eventually ended up getting engaged after 2 years; however, I knew about 6 months into the relationship things weren't going well and I felt the way "A" did, yet I stuck it out
because he was nice, sweet, etc.  The "ick" factor was something I figured out and learned from, which was that we did not have enough in common with respect to very important foundational things, and that translated into "ick" and caused me to lose the attraction. 

I believe that difference in important areas of a relationship can cause the irritations and then lead to
becoming unattracted.  It isn't that I prefer being with a guy who is a jerk. I learned that if certain very important values in a person do not resonate with your values, no matter how cute and sweet and nice they are, it will not work (I broke off the engagement).  You must find someone who you are very attracted to as you point out, which includes someone with whom you respect and have the same values.

Regards,
Pamela

 

It is so challenging to figure all this relationship stuff out. I bet most all of us have gone through that stage of "all (men/women) are jerks!", and then if we keep going, and pay attention, that part of us matures a bit and learns to discriminate between the jerks and the truly extraordinary men/women that are around us everyday, when we change our perceptions. We also need to be more honest within ourselves about our own gut responses: it's easy to override our own intuition for lots of reasons, and then we end up with jerks.

One more thing, there are men who act like jerks and know they are, but truly do not have the skills not to behave badly. This does not mean we should let them mistreat us, but we can take a more compassionate stance, and realize that they cannot do else, and that extrapolating their behaviour to the entire gender just curtails our own delight in how wonderful men can, and often are, able to be.

I just left a relationship with a man who turned out to be verbally/emotionally abusive; quite destructive. He had enough love for me, and integrity somewhere within himself, that when he realized how destrcutive his behaviour was to me, he split up, and took good care of me in the splitting up, because that was the best he could do at the time. He did his best, and he was definitely a destructive @#$ for months. He is not a jerk, just toolless, and all men are not going to behave the same way, even though many of them are toolless also. We need to be more practical and honest with our great feminine intuition. Use our skills for our own good. Our partners will benefit as much as we do.

This comes from much on-the-ground experience. I know what being road-kill feels like, and I know that really these men and women are doing what they can, and it is up to us to say that works for me, or not. I remain delighted and anticipatory about the men in my life, now and in the future.

Victoria

 

In a relationship a couple should learn how to respect each other, sharing the happiness, the pain, caring, considerate and even give up part of their pride and dignity. Don’t be self-centered, listen to diversity option, and be nice and kind to each other, I think no matter you are a man or woman should accept this, life between the two should not be torn apart.

Mimi (another Mimi)

 

I don't think its that women like jerks, but men who fail to keep a woman interested on an emotional level lose the interest of a woman. I think its very easy to treat a woman with respect but have enough confidence to show her that you will not take her abuse at the same time.  And Vice versa.

Men and women both need to understand the dynamic that happens when two people come together..to keep each other on their toes, by having interests, goals and a zest for their life, and taking care of themselves, emotionally, physically in everyway so they come to a potential relationship as a strong yet caring and well grounded person. This allows the person to come your way as well.  Love is a game, but can be a fun game.

And it requires work!  People tend to get lazy, do not read up on relationship books and fail to improve themselves. What makes a person attractive beyond looks? Its charisma, and confidence, and knowing if a person is not interested that will do just very well, thankyou. That will make a person more intriguing in my eyes. Ultimately you must love yourself to really love another. And sometimes that includes knowing when someone is not right for you, to let them go, so you can allow another more fulfilling relationship to come your way all the while keeping your options open and keeping a full life of your own.

--Monica

 

I'd just like to know 'why'. Why is it that good guys (like me) watch incredible women fall for guys that are so worthless? I wish women understood how to see through to the true intentions of guys like other guys can. Maybe then there would be more real life fairy tales and less disasters.

Matthias

 

I am a middle aged woman who has begun dating after 30 years of marriage. I find the answer very simple, it's the implementation that can be tricky, if you are not in an emotionally stable position. Basically, it is a matter of having respect for yourself. Once that is firmly in place, you will only continue to see those men who treat you properly. You will know, without hesitation, when  a man has crossed the line. It is your own relationship with yourself which comes first and foremost in terms of dignity. All else with then follow. Ann

I think the reason a lot of people initially go for the "jerks" is because the "chase" is what is attracting them.  If someone is being a jerk, they are also coming across as uninterested... thus the chase begins.  Some people seem to really like the chase... or you could say, hate the rejection.

Thanks for all the emails!

TJ

 

Hi Mimi,

 
My first thoughts on this were maybe 'A' jumped in too quick.  We all give it our best shot when we meet someone we are attracted to, some even go so far as to change what they are really like to be more attractive to others (I'm talking about the nature of a person not the physical appearance), but over time our old selves resurfaces.  Once you see what the person is truely like, then some of us may not like what we see and the attraction is lost.  Better to find out after only a month rather than 2 years.  An old boyfriend of mine kept up his lies for 2 years before he started to slip back into the person he really was.  He'd become something he wasn't to win me.
 
Regards,
Trish
 
 

Hi Mimi,

I must say Aaron is right.

Why do women make this same mistake everywhere?
Why can't we ever stick with the right thing?
Yet women are forever searching for the right thing!
How strange.

Women really need to learn to respond to positive relationships.

I think its a generic problem with most women and our writer should learn to deal with it! Simple. she may never find it better anywhere else.
 
The usual tears are likely to follow after she's made the ugly decision.
She ought to look inwards and deal with the reason for the loss of interest.
It could just be something very insignificant.
-----Chinwe
 
 

Aaron ... PLEASE don't go back to being a jerk!!! But, do maintain healthy boundaries.

My story: I I had come from an emotionally abusive/controlling marriage of 23 years and didn't dated for 2 years. Met a very gentle man who treats me as if I hung the moon and stars.

Needless to say, even having dealt with my emotional baggage before entering this relationship, I occasionally found myself waiting for the other shoe to drop. Around month 4 this caused me to feel a little unbalanced perched upon my pedestal. He sensed my "pulling away" and responded in like fashion, although neither of us truly desired to part ways.

After a month of silence, he sent me the most beautiful email that tugs on my heartstrings to this day. He expressed his love for me (yes, as difficult as it was I let him have the honors!) and the future he hoped we would have together along with an understanding that my pace is likely slower than his. The latter part opened my eyes ... he UNDERSTOOD (and accepted) that I needed time to trust his "care taking" qualities.

And trust I do. He is genuine. And we have both learned to balance doting on each other with equal part whimsy.We have been together for 9 months now and going strong. So ladies and gentlemen, nice guys/gals do win. It often just takes a little more patience and understanding (of both ourself and our SO) and a lot more communication.

Thank you Mimi for helping us all unravel the mysteries of relationships.

Teri
(an eternal student of the intrigue of the human beast)

 

Women who are self confident and love themselves will love a man who treats them the way a lady should be treated!  Going after jerks is just immature and silly; I haven't done that since high school!  My husband respects me and treats me like a queen.  I do my best to reciprocate.

--Melanie

 

This is Kim:

I dated a man who thought like Aaron and I thought he was downright pathetic. This is what I think about Aaron. It is whiny. The guy I dated never thought it had anything to do with him - it was always the *woman's* stupidity. Of course it has nothing to do with the guy, it's the woman's fault because all she wants are 'jerks'. *rolls eyes* I found Aaron's e-mail incredibly immature and I wouldn't want to date him at all with that poor attitude!

The subject grabbed my attention right away. I've been involved in an abusive 2 1/2 year relationship. I didn't like him when he was a jerk. I loved him when he was nice sincere &  promising the world that he would become nicer & make up for his mistakes. I gave him a million chances, not because I liked being mistreated but because I believed he would try better. Because the beginning of our relationship was so awesome! But last night I ended up getting him arrested because he abused me. And I know not to be treated badly like that again. I just thought he would change. And so I looked past his flaws. But to the guys out there , please don't stop being nice. We need the ones who won't hurt us.

Thank you -- Molly

 

 

The secret to life is learning to like yourself- If you focus on "how do I present myself to others? how do I treat others?"  I can change my actions - If we set ourselves up to change others, then, it must be in a positive way, say, with a smile or a kind word. I can not change bad behavior in another person (jerk or whatever). The more we exude a calm spirit, the more we attract a calm spirit.

Accepting others as they are is difficult at times.  There are those with whom we should not share the same air - EXIT -find a safer haven.
 
No one, male or female, truly prefers a JERK! It is important for me to look in the mirror to apply mascara -that's a good time to look into my soul.  If my reflection is not acceptable to me, then how could anyone else accept me - that's how I rate my JERK or NO JERK!

DEE

 

If a woman chooses a man who treats her like a jerk, this could be a sign of deeper issues going on in her life, such as unforgiveness, self-hatred, and rejection issues. She may not feel worthy of a nice guy. Many of these things are subconscious reactions to past situations that were hurtful. Women finding themselves in such a position should take a break from dating, and find counseling and healing before attempting to create romance in their lives again. I was in a relationship before I dealt with many of these issues, and it didn't work out because of my subconscious fears and insecurity. Facing the deeper issues in your life head on is the best thing you can do for your love life to build confidence.

Sarah

 

Dear Mimi,

I regularly follow your emails. This is the first time I am writing to you, as a reply.

Women, many times seem to confuse romantic passion with love. Love is something that will remain when the passion fades. One needs patience to see how her feelings turn, and if her initial feelings are replaced with something better, if she is wants to go for a committed relationship. Lot of things depend on women. They do not prefer jerks but their premature conclusions and decisions can surely make a jerk out of him.

Men, who go back to being jerks, thinking women prefer jerks, are desperate. Do they really want to be with women who prefer jerks? Men need great respect from women. Turning a jerk, he is closing his doors for respect in the long run.  The impression women make about men, depends a lot on what men do in such desperate situations.

Thanks for all your insightful emails.

Love,
Elina

 

My name is Carol.  I don't think women are attracted to jerks. We are attracted physically first.  Men who are physically attractive and have confidence have a higher percentage of jerks among them.  Men who are nice usually aren't as attractive, or don't have that confidence we admire and try to make up for it by being more thoughtful.  More attractive men want to conquer and divide and if the chase is short they move on to next.  Women also act in a similar manor.  We want men  to adore us and if the chase is short we become uninterested very quickly.  People always want what they can't have initially. -- Carol

 

You are correct......
They set themselves up for failure by choosing a man who treats them badly.

I was in a very bad relationship, and it took me years to get over it. Sometimes we don't take enough time to fix ourselves, and we take those bad feelings into the new, and that is not fair for anyone. We settle....We need to take a pad, and pen and write down things we want from a man.....and then don't come off of them.

We are who we are, and we have to except the man for who he is.....not what we can change him to be..... I am a pretty women, loving, touchy women.  I love people and it took me a while to love me again.

Thanks,
Debbie

 

People can end up with a lot of baggage if they have been through a divorce, nasty break-up or rejection, and are often very hesitant to open up to another person right away in the fear of getting hurt again. It all boils down to "once bitten, twice shy". Why should I open myself up to a man right away? He's going to have to work at getting to know me, and until I trust him and I feel there is a commitment on some level, he'll never get to know me!! Slow and steady wins the race!

- Maureen

 

I think that Aaron is over-generalizing a bit.  Many of us don't always run with abusive men.  In my situation, I find out they are jerks and send them packing.  I am a teacher.  I own my own home, write articles for my church, do lay ministry at the hospital, and have a stable life.  I have yet to find a nice, stable man.  Most of the men that I have run into resemble little boys.  They don't have their finances in order, own their own home, or seem to be able to carry on a decent conversation.  They seem to have very little knowledge of their own shortcomings.  They also don't seem to have an appreciation of all people.  It seems that they can only talk to people they consider "attractive" or who are male.  Even if they are talking to me because they think I'm one of the "attractive" ones, I consider it to be rude.  If you can't converse with all people and value them for who they are, I consider you to be shallow. 

I honestly wish I could find some nice gentlemen, but really don't know where to look anymore.

-- R.

 

I DON'T THINK MOST WOMEN PREFER JERKS.I KNOW THAT I PREFER MEN WHO TELL ME WHAT THEY WANT CONCERNING THE RELATIONSHIP. I WANT THEM TO TELL ME THEY DON'T WANT ME TO BE SEEING OTHER MEN. SOME MEN GO TO FAR AND BECOME CRAZY IE THREATS, STALKING AND SOME ARE TOO PASSIVE. EXAMPLE IS I HAVE A COUPLE OF MEN FRIENDS THAT I AM NOT ROMANTIC WITH BUT I KNOW THE REASON WE BECAME FRIENDS IN THE FIRST PLACE IS THAT THEY DID WANT ME ANDI GUESS I CONSIDERED IT THEN. IF I WAS TO START SPENDING A LOT OF TIME WITH THEM AND MY BOYFRIEND NEVER STATED ANYTHING ABOUT THIS I WOULD IN MY HEART WONDER IF HE CARED. I KNOW THAT SOUNDS CRAZY BUT DEEP IN MY HEART I WANT SOMEONE PROTECTIVE. I GOT THE PROTECTIVE FROM AN OLD FRIEND.

HE SAID IT WASN'T THAT HE WANTED TO POSESS BUT HE WANTED TO PROTECT WHAT HE HAD

--Emily

 

Nobody wants to be with someone who is boring! That's why "jerks" seem to do so well attracting women. There's something exciting about a man who is assertive enough to tell you what he wants. The trick is to be exciting and desirable enough while still being a good, caring person. If you are a CPA for a living, take up skydiving or some exciting hobby. Anything can really make you more interesting if you just have a good sense of humor about it! And of course, the bottom line is that we teach people how to treat us. If you don't want to be treated like you're unworthy, then don't LET people treat you like you're unworthy!

~L

 

No actually real woman prefer real man. Respect , honesty loyalty, love. Most woman seek man and act the way they would want to be treated. So my best advise if she treats you badly don't lower yourself to her level . She is not into you. Run and move on. You will find the woman for you that will rock your world.

MJ

 

I'll put another twist to this discussion. I am a "woman of a certain age" so the men I date have inevitably had bad experiences. I escaped from an extremely bad experience 10 years ago, but I have put the past in the past. I find (and perhaps I'm wrong) that men have more difficulty healing from bad experiences, and, again from my experience, they take it out on women they date (I don't mean abuse; I mean just in attitude).

The last two men I have dated are still bitter about marriages that ended 15 years ago; when I first began dating them, I had no idea; they seemed great. We had a wonderful time and they treated me well. But then they panicked and everything fell apart.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't think I'm subconsciously picking men with problems. I just think that after a certain age, the percentage of people with relationship problems increases.

--M.


My name is Christi. I know that woman tend to repeat behavior and stay with men they have had in the past. Liars, cheaters, you name it, it is all we know and that is why you feel strange with a normal guy.  You will self sabotage any good thing because we are only use to feel neglect, hurt and pain.  That is the pattern most woman know and tend to stick with~ as sad as that is.  My advise is to stay single and focus on something else.

 

 

I NEVER go for abusive men.  They have nothing to offer me.  She doesn't want to date this man because there is no real attraction there.  If she had that spark with him, she would want to look deeper.
 
Not all women like jerks!  A sweet heart wih flowers gets my heart ANY DAY!!!
 
~Julia
 
 

Hi Mimi
 
Leta here.  First of all, where is this magical line of men to choose from???  And they also have "good guy" and "bad guy" stamped on their foreheads????  If that spark of attraction is not there, I do not go out on a second date.  I would absolutely love to find that "good guy".  Unfortunately, the ones that I have the "spark" with have ended due to the way the relationship has headed / or how they have treated me.  How do you know anything about a person without dating them????  I do not have a "type" and am open to many different men (and have dated such) - I think you just have to be strong with your own convictions and keep hoping that some day the right one will come along. 
 
Leta

 

My comment to women growing to dislike a very nice man is the fact, that a woman still likes for a man to have a backbone and not do everything that his female friend may ask him to do right off. I think women somewhat like a challenge themselves and if things are given to them too easily then they  grow to disappreciate the individual. Not intentionally, but a man needs to have control over his emotions as well as women.

We sometimes like to feel as though we are earning their love and affection instead of it being placed on a platter. Not every woman is sweet and passive therfore she may need a man to nicely dominate her, mentally and physically.

--M.

 

In my opinion, women often choose to date jerks because they subconsciously feel that that is what they deserve.  When he does treat them badly, it is then a self-fulfilling prophecy in  the respect that they knew that they were not worthy of love.  

If we could just raise our standards, AND self-esteem, we would be looking for someone who was worthy of our time and affection, not someone who treats us as if we were less than amazing.

-- Sue


Why is it that people choose partners who treat them badly?

I went out with 2 guys who really kept me on my toas and didnt treat me well (ine cheated and the pther started to disrepect me),  but I was completly in love with them and very heratbroken when the realtioships finished.

The other boyfriend treated me like a queen and I just got bored.

I dont understand our human behaviour. Why do we do this?

Is there ever an even balance?
--Alison
 

 

My name is Betty...I too some to be more interested in the bad guys..I am more comfortable. I think it depends on your childhood... If you had a childhood that you were always told what to do and couldn't really voice your opinion than you would not feel comfortable with someone who always asked you what you want and where you what to go....this would put you into  an unfamilar area....
 

While Aaron is not completely wrong, he is setting himself up for failure BIGTIME! Yes, SOME women who don't know their worth in the very beginning tend to make themselves jerk magnets. However, if she is smart, she learns and sees the error of her ways, she learns that a man is not entititled to all of the best of her all at once, thus weeding out the 'males' who are jerks from the 'men' who are worth her time.

 
So Aaron, by all means, go back to being a jerk, you are entitled and it's a free country....but you do realize you sound no different than the same women you are complaining about, so I am not sure what it is you are hoping to get from them. It's certainly not real, true companionship. I hope you look forward to having alot of these unaware women at your disposal and being forever stuck in the cycle of being a jerk, because at some point, these women WILL wise up and move on and you will still be the jerk who has to call about 5 (hey, you're making yourself out to be a great guy, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say 10) women before you finally have that one unaware creature who will actually answer and be available for you. Good luck! -- Shantee

 

Mimi,

I have been reading your emails for months now and I find your assessments enlightening. However, there are other points of view when it comes to the "jerk" appeal. I am a woman attracted to a confident man and with confidence comes some arrogance, the conundrum is finding the man with a healthy balance. A gentleman, gently able to use his confidence in a way that enhances his manhood.

Jai

 

 

I learned the hard way, an infinite number of times... you set the tone for the treatment you will accept.  Don't accept being treated poorly and you won't be.  But you have to do it from day one.  Never expect a man to treat you better than he did at the beginning of the relationship. Never tell him how bad someone else treated you because now the bar he has to live up too is set very low -- better your breakup was so hard because boyfriend #1 treated you so well ( even if you only mean for the first ten minutes you met ).

Karr

 

Mimi, I read your email today and that is very true. I have done this myself, only to get more hurt by a different guy. My question is, how does someone get out of that cycle? I don't want to be with someone who treats me bad. Yet, I just keep making bad choices. Help!

~Monique

 

To me, the problem seems more that the man is nice for the first 6 months or a year, then turns into a jerk. By that time I am hooked and can't break away -- so I stay with him and it only gets worse.

June

 

Dear Mimi,

My problem is quite the opposite.  I am SO attracted to the man I'm involved with, he gets away with not meeting my needs.  He was in a terrible marriage that has left him scarred, and continues to live in the past.  He thinks all women are whores who cheat.  I am definitely not like that and try to prove myself to him constantly.  I have never been as attracted to anyone as I am to him.  I don't know how or why, but the chemistry is so unbelievable!  When we're together, we have to always be touching each other.  I've never had that before.  I think he does love me, he's just scared of getting hurt again, so I'm trying to be patient and help him trust again.  He just doesn't give me the emotional support I crave.  Will he ever come around??  How long should I wait to find out?  I'm scared that I may never find anyone else who I am so in love with.  I've been married two times and didn't feel the connection with either of them that I do with this man.
 

Anne

 

Hi Mimi:

I hope the gentleman who wrote the email below will read this.  It works both ways.  There are men who think all women are out to use and abuse and women who think men are pigs.  Overall, it boils down to what we think of ourselves. 

I have been dating for a while now and have found that some people are very good at hiding "red flags" and are on their best behavior in the beginning of the relationship. When the red flags show up after several months, time and energy have been invested and usually someone is emotionally
involved.  It takes BOTH parties to work on a relationship.  No matter how much time has gone by,
WHEN the flags pop up, if it is not a workable situation, get out. You can't fix anyone else's issues
and behavior but you can fix your own situation and happiness.    

Trisha

 

Hi Mimi,

Loved this one.

I've run the gamut - been a 'bitch' and been a 'doormat' and am now beginning to reach some conclusions.

Basically, I believe its all about balance - this is true for both men and women. It's a huge mistake to hit the extremes: either bitch or doormat, either jerk or weakling. The secret is (or must be, I should say!) to be as nice and sweet as you feel in your nature to be, but hold your own and set limits. So when the man/lady in your life tries to test your boundaries (and they will) or see how far you will bend back or go, you give up to where you feel comfortable giving but say no when you don't feel
comfortable and set boundaries as to where you will not go or bend.

It boils down to being truly honest with yourself (ask yourself: "am I really comfortable with doing this/that?") and if the answer is "no", then have the guts to say so - not in a confrontational way, but frank way. You will have your partner's respect and your self-respect. And you won't kill the
initial attraction with approval-seeking over-kind honey-dripping behaviour or excited but scared attraction with mean behavior. There has to be that balanced middle-ground.. we just have to work on finding it and it will exude. That's gotta be good to attraction...

Voila' - my two cents.

Thanks,
"Yadira" (not her real name)
 

Classification:  UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

From my observations and experience, it seems like most, but not all, good-looking, charming men tend to be on the jerky side, since they know they can get another woman without much trouble.  The guys that don't really 'have it' seem to be nicer and try harder, maybe too hard, since they don't have women falling all over them.  Is this just one of those unfair things in life or am I totally wrong here?
By the way, love reading these e-mails! -- C.

 

 

I was stuck in an abusive relationship for a long time because I'd fallen in love w/the man when he was not abusive (i.e. not committed).  I think women stay w/abusive men because of self-esteem issues, and then when we find a good man who treats us great, we aren't sure what to do.  We are used to having to "earn" our good treatment and we are scared of being treated well just for who we are.  But PLEASE you good guys, DON'T give up!  We need and love you! -- C.
 

After a 13 year marraige with a charming sociopath, I jumped into an "epic" style romance with a man who gave me all the exciting feelings of electricity and fire beneath my skin.  When I kissed him, it felt like I have belonged to him since the beginning of time, and this is the only man I was born to be with.  He was poetic, romantic, and told me no one has ever touched his soul the way I touched his.  It didn't take me long to realize "Mr. Perfect" was incredibly selfish and became extremely cold when he was angry.  He would pull me close to him, make all sorts of promises, then push me away and became angry when I asked what was going on.  If I were to go on, it would make a book, so I will stop here with him.  I will be honest when I say I miss the fire of that romance.  I have never felt more strongly for someone, nor will I again.  I decided, however, to grow up.  I made a list of what I would not accept in a relationship and what must be there. 

A few months after I made that list, I met a wonderful man who stimulates me intellectually and showers me with respect.  He is selfless, generous, and likes me for who I am and has no interest in possessing me.  I don't feel any passion for him, but I care for him deeply and enjoy talking to him and cuddling up with him during a movie.  I am not going to throw away anything this wonderful for a passionate, charming man who treats me like trash.  For all the men out there who is reading this:  I am an intelligent, educated, confident redhead with the body of a Victoria Secret model and a face like Julia Roberts.  There are women out there like me who are looking for good men like you.  Don't give up.

-- L.
 

I am a professional and attractive woman. I think women like the chase the same way men do. To work for the attention makes you feel he is not too needy or smothering. I think women AND men confuse confidence with arrogance or even disrespect! It is a fine line till you get to know the person better. I married someone who was VERY confident in all roles of his life (profession, father, social events) and found it was a cover up (not consciously of course) for ALL his insecurities!! He eventually became physically abusive towards me because he was just a sick individual.

Take time to get to know people both men and women!! Figure out is the confidence... arrogance, insecurity, disrespect... or is he truly that special someone?  There is that FINE line between these characteristics and the only way to know is watch how he /she is in the roles of life and circumstances that surface throughout the relationship....only time will tell! 

-- Cyndi
 

Maybe it is because the nice man or nice woman was being too nice. Maybe they didn't keep their identity with friends and hobbies. Maybe they didn't say no enough. Sometimes I think when we find someone we really connect with...we are too available, or spend too much time in the beginning or give up too much information too fast or try to be their everything. It can be smothering to a person. I don't believe men and women do not like an insecure clingly person. One can be really nice and have a great time without making someone their complete world. And sometimes we are afraid of
losing this great person...and it shows in being too whatever...nice...available...giving...etc.

But sometimes...when someone goes back to dating a loser...it is because they really are not healthy. And that is the million dollar question...How does one tell if a potential mate is an emotionally healthy person!!!!????? -- B.
 

You know, after reading this i had to write, in my case i was married to a jerk for 16yrs it didn't start out that way,he was sweet and all and then the real him came out.. some men lure thier prey in and then when it's too late thay have you,but you do wise up and SO did I, I left and now after 12 yrs of being single i met and fell in love, and he went threw the same thing with his Ex. she was nice then Bamb! the real her came out and he's now finding out what i had been talking about.. and can see her for what she really is..

 
Sara (Not real name)

 

My name is Tiffany from Chicago.  I absolutely disagree with "women prefer jerks"; unless we are talking about an individual with a lowered or badgered self-esteem.  In this case, (as it has been my very own story) -I had to work on "myself" 1st and then healthy, "non-jerks" found me.  This is very simple:  It is the Natural Law of Attraction.  I am in love with a very healthy man now - guess I finally found myself & learned to respect & love me 1st.   Wishing all other women can/will find this same "bliss"!
 

I have noticed that women who do not have self worth choose the worst of men.

-- Trish
 

Well it does seem to be the scenerio with men and women who have what they've always wanted but choose to sabatoge the relationship. 

 
I personally, have been doing this for years :)    But now have the wisdom and understanding of myself (after letting men, one to many break my heart)  and have come to realization that Im not ready for a serious relationship.  As a result, always pick the 'not so nice' guys to have a relationship with and ultimately, subconsciously attracting these jerk men. -- Lisa
 

Dear Mimi,
Aaron sounds somewhat bitter himself!  Surely there's some midpoint between guys being jerks and guys being so nice they haven't got any oomph.  You're right, there's no point staying with a guy who irritates you as you'll only eventually feel contempt for him and yourself.  (I can't help thinking of that Laurie Anderson line: 'I no longer love the colour of your sweater, And the way you hold your pen and pencil'...)

I know a fiftysomething woman who married her best friend.  He's a perfectly nice guy.  She has two teenage daughters by him and he's a good father.  But all there is and has been was friendship and she's found that to no way be enough.  She remains with him because she could never maintain the lifestyle she's achieved by being married without having to wotk all hours.  That doesn't equal a lot of dignity as far as I'm concerned.

With all good wishes,
Catherine

 

Aaron sounds a lot like my husband (hmm...).  He has made comments like this to me many times over the years; and if you asked HIM how or why we got together, I'm very certain that SOMEWHERE in his explanation would be something to the effect that I had been involved in an abusive relationship before we got together and that I was better able to "appreciate" him.  He
would likely add that I'm the "exception" rather than the rule, too. -- D.

 

My name is gail. I agree I seem to always attract men who start off great and then put conditions on love. They seem to gravitate to women who are hateful and want to suck them dry. 

 

In my case it seems the men that are critical and somewhat negative to me,,,are the ones I'm always trying to please,,I feel they must know something and that maybe I do need to improve myself and I can't get them or their criticism out of my head,,it makes you crazy and very needy,,,then they end up dumping you and you feel even worse......Its sad but when the tables are turned I do the same thing to guys...is it just very low self esteem? I'm nice looking,,fun to be with,,,and I have lots of dates ,,,, frustrating,,,,, Thanks, Jan

 

I believe that women, like men, don't want a doormat. They want someone who loves them, gives them attention but still has their own life too. Unfortunately, some of us haven't been taught this from the beginning and are learning. Others run towards jerks. I know I did until I started reading advice and taking the time and effort to improve myself.

 
Last year, I broke off a three year relationship/engagement. The man was a great man who treated me like crap. Luckily, I have a son and my love for him came before my love for myself. Otherwise, I'd have married the man. One of his last comments to me was that I needed to work on my own issues and learn to let someone in. He was correct in that, to a degree. I needed to learn to love myself and trust myself before I can let a man in enough to love and trust him. Therefore, I picked jerks that I could push away. I'm learning, it's a hard process but I'm learning. I'd say both women and men need to learn this important love tool. Love thyself first.
 
Jill

 

 

Hi Mimi,

I've been in a situation where the man I feel I love is what you would call a "jerk".  I'm not sure what appeal these men have, because I know I deserve better.  I think what these "jerks" for want of a better word, know when to say the right thing, and can be very charming, when the mood strikes and
that's what keeps us going back for more.

I've dated extremely nice men, but unfortunately, some of them didn't know how to make me feel like a desirable woman.  However, I'm reading your Life long flirting and I've read Bob Grant's book and am beginning to realize that some of the problems with being hooked on a "jerk", are perhaps because
we are insecure and don't always know how to bring out the MAN in any man. So, I'm wondering if the nice guys could be "brought out" if we just paid a little more attention to how we are as WOMEN...?

Rationally I know the "players" are bad for me.  So, I want to let a nice guy in and maybe I have to let the WOMAN in me out...

Ariel (not my real name)

 

Dear Mimi,

I know quite a people (men & women) who have been in abusive relationships whether verbally, mentally or physically and some eventually get out of the relationship just to go back to another one. I
really believe that a lot of it is because of low self esteem, they feel like this is the best that they can get and when a nice guy or a woman comes along they classify them as a brother or just a friend because
they are scared of the unknown so they tend to lean more to the "norm" or what they are comfortable with instead of what is best for them. Comfortable doesn't always mean good.
 
Thank you,
Yvette

I agree with what you and Aaron are saying but I would like to also add that I don't think women set out to date men who treat them badly.  I know for myself, I have an uncanny way of falling for men who have treated me like a Queen for the first few months and before I know it they have turned out to be 'wolves in sheep's clothing'.    

I heard something in your column that I have come to recite daily, 'we teach people how to treat us' and I find it amazingly true.

Trish
 

More responses on Page 2

Is it difficult to attract the right men? Bob Grant says no!

"Once the realization comes to my clients that attracting a man is pretty simple, love seems to find them, almost as though it was waiting on them right around the corner." -- Bob Grant

Bob Grant is the author of "The Woman Men Adore and Never Want to Leave" at http://thewomanmenadore.com

 

Mimi Tanner is the author of Man Mistake Eraser and many other books.